Its all falling apart is it not?

With the Israeli conflict n.0 the end times folk are getting all weak kneed and excited expecting a non-rapture any day soon.

The sad thing is that this situation we have brought upon ourselves collectively, even if the USA is the scapegoat, others bought into their fiat system.

What saddens me that folk in Gaza are seen as sub human yet



This father's pain is no different to any other father. How his hopes and dreams must be shattered yet folk glory in the terrorist deeds of Israel as they are supposedly the chosen and can do no evil.

It is this ridiculous mindset IMO that has distanced the USA from the rest of the civilized world.

I do not condone any form of killing as War is Stupid - period

Israel get a free pass as the neither the USA nor the UK can really condemn them w/o having a but look what you did.. as a rebuttal. Israel after all are a result of land annexed from Palestine, yes land was paid for but the 1948 borders were nothing like what exists today.

Hamas were democratically elected thus one needs to rewind the clock to see how it is that they got the popular vote. If radicals come into power, then what drives that mindset? Rewind the clock some more. How did Hitler come to power?

When one takes a step back, one sees the problem lies with both leaders and followers, the leaders are supposed to be responsible but sadly, winding the clock back to the dark ages when the church ran things, they did not set a good example.

Religions has always been used to control the masses - in today's climate, the interpretation is twisted to line up with government propaganda. Seen it happen here in SA and I am seeing it in the USA. One cannot even post comments on any news blog reporting the conflict expressing one's outrage.

If Obama cannot bring the USA into the global community, it will digress into an ideological island like Germany did and we all know how that turned out for them.

The Neo fascists are alive and well and are well entrenched, one need only look at the symbolism that came into being post 9-11 with distorted patriotism and look where we sit today.

The world becomes impatient but hopes that a new administration will make a difference. For too long, the USA has been in a WWII mindset seeing the economy worked so well in a war machine that actually rescued the USA economy.

Maybe if the USA also had a moratorium against them like Japan and Germany did, they would be a real world leader financially as Germany and Japan happen to be today. In the bigger scheme of things, Europe and Japan own the auto industry market and it is no secret that the majority of USA folk prefer non USA cars.

Where has the USA focused it's technology? Space, Aerospace, weapons yet we look at the 747 which is still 80's technology and light years behind the airbus A320 and the latest A380, India sent a mission to the moon, China has had a manned mission albeit just orbit, and Japan also has a space program.

Having lived through a transition from Imperialism to democratic socialism, I say the latter is far more acceptable and peaceful - when you are forced to adapt it sometimes helps.[/rant]

A side note on the Airbus:
When one could still go up to the cockpit, I was in a A320 fully digitized with a triple redundant back up and there in the middle of the dash, an analog horizon and altimeter. I asked why. The pilot told me they have to do it to get FCC approval. I asked do you use it and he said No. We are talking fly by wire (joystick) while Boeing was still churning out hydraulic stick control and a cabin requiring 3 crew whereas the A320 was 2. This was when the A320 first came out.

The reason I mention this is that the USA who were leaders at one time, remained behind in technology as it developed. However when you look at military stuff, it is top notch.

It's all part of God's greater plan...

Concordant OT Ecc 1:13 “It is an experience of evil Elohin [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.”


ESV Ecc 9:12 For man does not know his time. Like fish that are taken in an evil net, and like birds that are caught in a snare, so the children of man are snared at an evil time, when it suddenly falls upon them.

Paul

Israelis using White Phosphorus weapons in Gaza (link)



Doctors in Gaza City have told Al Jazeera that people have been admitted suffering burns consistent with the use of the controversial chemical white phosphorus.

Human rights campaigners say that Israeli forces have used the munition, which can burn away human flesh to the bone, over Gaza City and Jabaliya in recent days.

Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, said: "Doctors here say they are seeing unprecedented levels of deep burns.

"They cannot categorically say that white phosphorus is being used, they are saying that the munitions being dropped are unprecendented."

Link to Al Jazeera English if you have the stomach for it.

What sickens me the most, the Israelis defend their use of it as the USA also uses it. No wonder the USA cannot condemn the Zionists.

US confirms white phosphorus use in Fallujah (link)



The United States military has confirmed that its use of white phosphorus to quell last year's insurgency in the Iraqi city of Fallujah went beyond creating smokescreens and illumination shells.

US officials now say white phosphorus was used as an incendiary weapon in the Fallujah assault, something the Pentagon has previously denied.

Hi Bernie,

It is really no secret these days that Jewish Zionism has a tight grip of control on the news media, the political process and a large percentage of our twisted Christian religious institutions here in the US, yet there are more individual folks here in the US who are against all this oppression than those outside the US may realize, many refuse to go into the military, many do speak out against Zionism, however just like the Viet Nam war we had reached a point where protesters were gathered at a university speaking out against that war and were fired on by police and NG soldiers, several were actualy killed,
I believe three or four at the scene of the protest and a few more some days later died from their wounds, the News media did report it but also did all they could to suppress it and cover it over lik it was all the protesters fault.

We have many sitting in the prisons around this country for resisting the unequal tax system, lack of jobs, going AWOL or deserting the military, or even just speaking out in the truth about what is really happening within our government, especially under state secrecy laws behind closed doors, that is proof enough that those who do care are suppressed and beaten back to a place of no effect by the system we live under. Just look at how Ron Paul was put into a position where he can't say or do anything to change the status quo in power, so I am hoping Obama truely is going to try and flush some of this corruption out and that he is going to put America fisrt instead of Zionist Israel and I hope he lives to change it with out meeting foul play in the corrupt poltical system he has to operate within.

One thing that could be done to help rebuild some of our crumbling infastructure here in the US would be to quit sending billions of tax payer dollars to Israel every year like that has been done for over 60 years, and also the money they send to some of the other countries to prop up cruel sadistic dictators that kills off there own people.

Peace
Fire Walker

I have searched a few "Christian" sites and the ignorance is so depressing.
The free pass that they people are willing to give to Israel is appalling.

People are being massacred...children, babies...
Supporting a group of people NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO is MADNESS.

It's as if the Palestinians aren't even PEOPLE for God's sake!!!!
This is all I can think about. I feel helpless.

We are all brothers and sisters in this world... how can ANYONE turn a blind eye to this?


Is the world ending?
Is this the start?
What is Israel trying to do? Are they trying to provoke Iran?

What is REALLY going on, here?
I feel like this is the beginning of the end.

I've never in my life felt this way or gave much attention to "the end of the world" and all that...
Because I know where we all ultimately end up.
I know that this world is evil for a reason.. I know all of this... I know that evil has to play out to the end so it can finally be destroyed for all eternity. I know we have to suffer through "man's way" in order to understand and appreciate "God's way" But I never felt so close to the end like I do now.

Am I alone? Does anyone else feel this way?
I don't have fear, really..because I trust God.
But I guess it's just a general, persisting uneasiness at what is around the corner for everyone...

Hi Sparrow

Yes it is depressing to see how the Christian (?) sites glory in this but it is namely due to their false eschatology teachings.

If Obama does manage a "peace treaty" then officially the tribulation begins and just because the next election cycle is in 2012 and the end of the Mayan calender, the mid tribbers are all exited. You do of course know that most of these fundies have BO as the antichrist. It all fits in with their fictitious prophetic time clocks.

The Zionist apologists use almost the exact same talking points as the fundies wrt to OT.

Personally, I do not think there is an "end times" per se but rather and end of an age. It does seem the some Muslim folk want all out war with Israel and that does nothing to foster peace. What we are seeing is an awakening of a global consciousness in condemnation of what is happening there. I participate on the your views but the comments are heavily moderated but allows all side to present their side. There are USA folk that are against and those for Israel.

For me, they are human and collective punishment is NOT the way of Christ - all folk make mistakes and people are misguided on both sides of the fence. Maybe someday, sensibility will return and peace will be possible.

The Time Clock Has Run Out: Israel Ready to Strike Iran

Monday, January 12, 2009 3:56 PM

By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size






Informed sources in Washington tell Newsmax that Israel indeed will launch a strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities soon – possibly in just days as President George W. Bush prepares to leave office.

The reason: The time clock has begun to run out. Iran is close to acquiring a nuclear device under the control of its radical president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei said in June that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in as little as six months.

That six-month period has passed.

Reports of Israel’s decision to imminently launch strikes, although unconfirmed, would seem to contradict the Bush stance outlined in a front-page New York Times story last week, which asserted that Bush rejected a plea from Israel last year to help it raid Iran’s main nuclear complex.

The Times said Israel was rebuffed after it requested from the U.S. specialized bunker-busting bombs that it needs to attack Iran’s nuclear complex at Natanz. The U.S. also reportedly nixed permission to the Israeli warplanes to fly over Iraqi territory to reach Iran.

Israel’s requests to the U.S. for military assistance came as the Jewish state was reportedly angry over a U.S. intelligence assessment in late 2007 that concluded Iran had effectively suspended its development of nuclear weapons.

But an investigative report circulated by IAEA chief ElBaradei late last year disclosed that Iran was continuing to carry out uranium enrichment and had already established 6,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium, of which 3,800 were then in operation.

American intelligence officials now estimate that the figure is 4,000 to 5,000 centrifuges, enough to produce about one weapon’s worth of uranium every eight months or so, according to the Times.

The IAEA report estimated that Iran has obtained two tons of enriched uranium since its enrichment program was restarted at Natanz two years ago.

Last year 100 Israeli jets took part in an exercise over the eastern Mediterranean that was interpreted as a dress rehearsal for a possible attack on Iran.

And on Sept. 6 Israel launched an air attack against a site in Syria believed to be a nuclear-related facility containing material delivered by North Korea.

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton predicted that Israel would stage a raid against Iran's nuclear facilities if Barack Obama won the presidential election.

Bolton stated that he believed the Israeli attack would take place sometime between the day after Obama's win and his inauguration on January 20.

In an interview with FOX News, Bolton reasoned that Israel wouldn’t be able to hold off a strike on Iran any longer than that given Obama’s more conciliatory approach to Iran.

The Israeli government “would have to make a judgment whether to [strike] during the remainder of President Bush’s term in office or wait for his successor,” Bolton added.

William Perry, U.S. Secretary of Defense under President Bill Clinton, said that Obama would face a major crisis in his first few months in office over Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Perry, speaking at a foreign policy conference on Jan. 8, said that Iran is "moving inexorably toward becoming a nuclear power" and “it seems clear that Israel will not sit by idle while Iran takes the final steps toward becoming a nuclear power."

And former CIA officer Robert Baer, author of the new book “The Devil We Know: Dealing with the New Iranian Superpower,” told Newsmax in October that Iran was at that time probably months, if not weeks, away from war with Israel.

The repercussions of an Israeli attack are not clear.

Though Arab states remain openly hostile to Israel, many who belong to the Sunni branch of Islam fear the rise of a nuclear Iran, a nation dominated by Shiite imams. Gulf states like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have been quietly pressing the U.S. to take action against Iran – and may secretly root for an Israeli attack.

But Iran, even without nuclear weapons, is a regional power. If attacked, they are likely to press proxy terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to launch offensives against Israel and possibly the U.S.

Iran has warned in the past that it would launch a “missile blitz” against Gulf states if it is attacked.

And last July a senior Iranian official said the Islamic Republic would destroy Israel and 32 U.S. military bases in the Middle East if Iran is attacked over its nuclear program.

“Israel and 32 U.S. military bases in the region would not be out of the reach of our missiles and would be destroyed," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted Mojtaba Zolnour as saying in a speech.

Zolnour is the deputy of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's representative in Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards.

Even more ominously, Iran has reportedly carried out missile tests for what could be a plan for a nuclear strike on the U.S.







© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sparrow,

As for these Christian sites,I think it goes clear back to the warning Apostle Paul gave to the Church "BEWARE of the JUDAIZERS creeping into the Church!" Now even many Jews are waking up and speaking out against Zionist Israel because the world has a tendancy to blame an entire group of people for what their government does and they are preparing for a huge backlash, just as many people in the US have opposed the Viet Nam war, and the Iraq war because our government sold the public that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and posed an eminent threat to the US, this was ALL a pack of LIES, our Government had the military invade Iraq on the behalf of Israel and for control of the oil is closer to the truth than that Iraq ever had these non exsisting weapons they could never find because they weren't there to be found!
Paul was prophetic enough to see what would happen to the Church such as we witness first hand today which a segment of it morphed into Zionism, giving free riegn to Israel to carry out genocide on an entire people just because Israel believes the land belongs to the Jews only.

No you are not alone, I have sorrow that can't be measured for what is going on in the middle East and other places of terrible suffering around the world because of the deceptive hand our US government has played in it. the Last President we ever had who put Israel in its place was Dwight Esinhower in the mid 1950's
No other President since then has been that honest about Israel IMO.

Peace
Fire Walker

Concerning Iran, I do not think it would be a bad thing if they had nuclear weapons. It would certainly level the playing fields with Israel and force them to a peace treaty.

On Aljazeera the Zionist apologists keep flying the Iran mantra. I wonder why they do not take the matter into their own hands and attack Iran. I know why, they know that this is not a few resistance fighters and that Iran is armed by Russia or at least owns sophisticated Russian weapons.

With Iran, they wanted to draw the USA into that conflict and probably after realizing that he Bush had been fed a load of shit on Iraq, was not about to make another mistake. Obamas approach with Iran may well open the way to ME peace and I am glad to see he views the whole ME mess as a single interrelated issue. Fix Israel and most of the rest of the fringe issues should dissipate.

It is encouraging that Obama has chosen a man as the special envoy to the ME. Condi Rice was useless. This issue may just be too hot for Hilliary to handle and being female places her at a disadvantage in misogyny based cultures.

Bernie,

Good solid points - as we wade into the Obama era. That describes I think in a nut shell what the situation is concerning Israel and Iran. For Israel to attack Iran would interfere with the economic and oil refining infrastructure the Chinese have invested in that country. The consequences would be far more serious than Gaza. If there was any chance at all that Israel was going to nuke Iran - Russia world make sure that Israel would become a hole in the sand. The proximity of Iran to Russia would make such a stupid idea intolerable to Russia.

But the most daunting task that Obama faces now is what to do about the US economy. And on that issue he is going to "blow" any chance to resolve this problem by these stimulus packages. "Bail Out Nation" as it has been referred to. Using Chinese borrowed money to bail, is anything but a stimulus. You can only bring about lasting results if you spend real savings on such projects - not borrowed money. The US is $56 Trillion in debt - the interest on that sum is $3 Trillion per year. This will destroy Obama's credibility along with the US economy. He has an impossible task and he is going about resolving it in a way that will make things far, far worse. Guaranteeing failure!

At the end of Obama's 4 year term there will be, IMO mounting pressure to blame someone for all the ills of the US economy. That is why I feel that the economy is so important. In the near future a military solution might look appealing and at that juncture all bets are off as to what a desperate US might do.

John

The likelihood of Obama fixing the economy at all is questionable. He will certainly give it a try but I think we have come to a point where the old SE trading is going to die out. All he is doing is propping up or trying to rescue a doomed system.

With the enormous debt of the USA, who owns the USA really?

IMO the whole industry of the USA post the depression has been a war based economy piggy backed on the production line style of Henry Ford. Apart from the weapons, they tried to export the American dream too and like fools, most countries bought into it.

30 years ago there were not really things like credit cards except for the very wealthy or IOW, to get credit, you needed to have some substance behind you or a family name/estate. Today anyone gets credit whether they can pay it back or not.

If green energy can take off, then that would put a serious dent in the oil based economies. IMO the oil companies suppressed via govt. any type of alternate energy as they would become marginal. In so doing, the whole Zionist control would be dealt a huge dent and like they always do, the rest of the world will copy and likely make it 10 times cheaper than the USA and 10 times more efficient.

It still surprises me that many Americans still believe that they are leaders in technology, the rest of the world has caught up and like Japan, they have surpassed.

Name the last 3 space launches in the last 6 months and their origins?

Most of the USA tech is so 80's and others in Europe and Asia have and are overtaking the USA. The USA is still a global player but no longer a global leader. This can be seen simply by looking at their car industry and what folk prefer to drive.

I must say, even though it hurts me personally, the steps out finance minister took 2 years ago in restricting credit and applying legislation to control it, it has allowed us to weather the storm better than what seems to be a global trend - euither that or it has not hit us yet, i hope it is the former.

If money makes the world go round and diamonds are girl's best friend, I guess we are OK

Russia and China obliquely blame U.S. for global financial crisis

Bernie - it is my belief that this kind of critizism will increasse dramatically in the near future as the US nears default!
John

Angela Charlton And Colleen Barry, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
January 28, 2009
DAVOS, Switzerland - The Chinese and Russian prime ministers obliquely criticized the United States for the worst global financial crisis since the Great Depression, citing the blinding drive for profit in the opening session of the World Economic Forum on Wednesday.
Both China's Wen Jiabao and Russia's Vladimir Putin said the crisis had seriously impacted their countries' economies.
But while Jiabao imbued the gloomy meeting with cautious optimism, telling participants that China would meet its target of eight per cent economic growth for 2009, Putin refrained from specific forecasts.
Wen conceded that the growth target was "a tall order" but obtainable, saying growth in China remains "on the track of steady and fast development."
Wen offered lightly veiled criticism of the United States and western financial institutions when he listed the causes of the financial crisis as "an unsustainable model" of low savings and high consumption and a "blind pursuit of profit." He also cited "a lack of self-discipline" among financial institutions, and the failure of regulators to keep up with new financial instruments.
Putin, who called the crisis a "perfect storm" that was wreaking destruction on all corners of the global economy, refrained from blaming the U.S. directly - but pointedly noted that just a year ago at Davos American delegates emphasized the U.S. economy's fundamental stability.
"Today, investment banks - the pride of Wall Street - have virtually ceased to exist," a fact that he said spoke louder than any public tongue-lashing.
Politicians, well-heeled business leaders and well-meaning activists and celebrities gathered for the annual forum under a pall of gloom that has seen personal fortunes trimmed, companies shuttered and hundreds of thousands jobs lost.
People are "depressed and traumatized," Rupert Murdoch, chief executive of News Corp. said, adding that worldwide some "$50 trillion of personal wealth" had vanished since the crisis worsened with the Sept. 15 collapse of U.S. investment bank Lehman Bros. Co.
"The size of the problem confronting us today is larger than in the 1930s," said billionaire philanthropist George Soros.
The scope of the decline was evident even among the gift bags that attendees - who pay thousands of dollars to participate - received this year. Instead of loaded personal digital assistants, fine Swiss chocolates and gadgets they got basic, blue-hued pedometers instead, suggesting shoe leather instead of limos as a way to get to meetings.
"There is a modesty, even a humility of confidence and certainty," Michael Useem, a management professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business, said of this year's conference. "This year, because of the events of the last nine months, everybody has a sense of being a little bit knocked off their perch, and thus more modest about their own confidence and about their own certainty."
Capitalism still had its supporters despite the stunning failures of the last year, as participants debated ways to make it more responsible as well as the role of government in easing the way toward recovery.
"Profit is a major driver of business, but it is clear that it cannot be profit at all costs and it is also clear that self indulgence cannot replace reasonable competitive remuneration," forum chairman Klaus Schwab said.
Still, the failure of the world's financial community and of regulators to detect and deflect the crisis has left many groping for answers.
"Today, people from every corner of the globe ask how it was possible that decisions could be taken, led by greed or incompetence or with no effective oversight, decisions that had terrible consequences, not only for the global economy but also for real people, who have lost their pensions, their homes, their jobs," Schwab said. "They may not understand what went wrong, but they are clear that their leaders have let them down."
Laura Tyson, a former Clinton administration economic adviser now working with President Barack Obama, was blunt in her assessment of why government needs to take a lead role in the recovery - and why financial institutions are discredited.
"Governments can borrow. Banks cannot. The reason they cannot is because no one trusts them. Why should they trust them? They weren't transparent. They lost trillions of dollars. They created instruments even they didn't understand," Tyson said.

I agree SeekerSA....

Once we come to realize Israel...is not Israel at all....then we begin to understand what the bible is conveying to us when it says...

"Those that say they are Jews, but are not...and do Lie".....they are wolves in sheeps clothing.....

The Wolf and the Lamb

WOLF, meeting with a Lamb astray from the fold, resolved not to
lay violent hands on him, but to find some plea to justify to the
Lamb the Wolf's right to eat him. He thus addressed him:

"Sirrah, last year you grossly insulted me." "Indeed," bleated
the Lamb in a mournful tone of voice, "I was not then born."
Then said the Wolf, "You feed in my pasture." "No, good sir," replied
the Lamb, "I have not yet tasted grass."

Again said the Wolf, "You drink of my well." "No," exclaimed the Lamb, "I never yet
drank water, for as yet my mother's milk is both food and drink
to me."

Upon which the Wolf (Israel the so called nation) seized him (the palestinians and any other goy that get in their way of world domination) and ate him up, saying,
"Well! I won't remain supperless, even though you refute every
one of my imputations."

The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Gaza residents headed for Friday communal prayers and Israeli naval guns were largely silent as grief and shock began to mix with a palpable sense of relief in the coastal strip pounded by weeks of Israeli airstrikes and ground assaults.

(Wow, Naval guns v.s rocks and home-made 'fire-work' rockets that can't hit a target the size of the astro-dome)

Gazans filled mosques without fear of Israeli strikes for the first time since cease-fires were declared by Israel and Gaza's Hamas rulers Sunday. Residents had endured weeks of non-stop gunfire along Gaza's coast after Israel launched a devastating offensive in late December.

Near two destroyed Gaza City mosques on Friday(war crime!), men spread carpets on sandy ground to prepare for open-air prayers. In the main market of the Jebaliya refugee camp, large crowds shopped ahead of prayers and restaurants fired up huge vats with meat, cooking on wood fires because of a shortage of gas.

(do Israeli's have a shortage of gas? electric? medicine? food? dignity? hope for their children???...who is really being oppressed here??!!)

Fruit merchants boasted shipments of apples and bananas from Israel. One owner said it was the first time in five months he'd been able to sell fresh apples.
(Do Israeli's go without fresh apples for even 1 day??? Who is really being oppressed here??!!!)


The three-week Israeli offensive killed 1,285 Palestinians, mostly civilians, (war crimes) according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. Thirteen Israelis were also killed during the fighting, according to the government.

(13 Israeli's dead...mostly from friendly fire or accidents within their own camp....compared to 1,285 dead Palestinians (mostly children), and over three thousand Palestinian childen, women and human beings...brutaly injured ...missing arms and legs mostly). THIS IS OVER 100 to 1...where I come from we don't call this an offensive...we call it a TURKEY SHOOT.

Despite signs that life was beginning to return to normal in Gaza, the six-day-old truce remained fragile, and the sides' main demands for a durable cease-fire deal were unmet.

(Who has the most to gain if a cease-fire is unmet? ...think about it for once).
The tyrant (Israel) will always find a pretext for his tyranny.

Israel insists on guarantees that Hamas will stop smuggling weapons into Gaza and halt its rocket fire on southern Israel, while Hamas wants Gaza's borders open to ensure delivery of vital supplies.

(and who pays the price if both sides continue to clash? WHO??)

President Barack Obama addressed both stands on Thursday, saying his administration supported implementation of a "credible" system for stopping smuggling and calling for Gaza's borders to be opened for aid shipments, with "appropriate monitoring."

"Now, just as the terror of rocket fire aimed at innocent Israelis is intolerable, so, too, is a future without hope for the Palestinians," Obama said. "I was deeply concerned by the loss of Palestinian and Israeli life in recent days, and by the substantial suffering and humanitarian needs in Gaza. Our hearts go out to Palestinian civilians who are in need of immediate food, clean water, and basic medical care, and who have faced suffocating poverty for far too long."

Continued reading at ....

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-wo ... estinians/